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Topic-icon Float enlargement 2 begun today...

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1 year 4 months ago - 1 year 4 months ago #68 by multithom
multithom created the topic: Float enlargement 2 begun today...
Since I couldn't find anyone willing to tackle the project for me (within my budget anyway), I started the modification of another set of floats today.

So far I have cut one float apart just like last time. I have to admit, the second generation floats from Triak are much better constructed. The glass used is the same glass used in the main hull whereas the first gen just used e-glass. Much thicker. Also, they completely reinforced the main junction on the interior. They even added what looks to be a reinforcement of carbon fiber.

After cutting in half and removing some of the flange (where they joined the two halves during manufacture), I waxed the outside with mold release wax and covered with plastic wrap...I'm hoping to have fewer "OOPS" running epoxy to have to clean up.

Next step is to purchase styrofoam solid insulation from home depot. Then I will carve the hull outline into a sheet about a quarter inch. Fill the trench with epoxy and push the hull half into the hole and let set. Will keep you posted as I do this.
Last Edit: 1 year 4 months ago by multithom. Reason: Meant styrofoam not fiberglass insulation.

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1 year 4 months ago #69 by 3Hulls
3Hulls replied the topic: Float enlargement 2 begun today...
Remember the age old rule....... If there are no pictures, did it really happen?

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1 year 4 months ago #70 by multithom
multithom replied the topic: Float enlargement 2 begun today...
OK, OK...I'll post photos to show that I'm really doing something.

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1 year 4 months ago #71 by multithom
multithom replied the topic: Float enlargement 2 begun today...
OK, cut the second float in half today and took photo. It will be attached if things work correctly...Well maximum image size of only 0.1 MB will be pretty tough to comply with. Sorry, no photos for you.

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1 year 4 months ago #72 by 3Hulls
3Hulls replied the topic: Float enlargement 2 begun today...
Fixed it, up to almost 8MB now but they will be rastered down to 800 px. Still working on image quality, but give it a try.

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1 year 4 months ago #73 by multithom
multithom replied the topic: Float enlargement 2 begun today...
OK, just one photo to share. It shows the two halves of the second generation triak floats so you know what to expect if you saw one in half. the material used is that honeycomb stuff used in the main hull and it looks like the area where the mounting cup is has been reinforced with carbon fiber.

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1 year 4 months ago - 1 year 4 months ago #74 by multithom
multithom replied the topic: Float enlargement 2 begun today...
I finally got the styrofoam from the hardware store. 2 sheets is plenty--one sheet probably would have been enough had I been parsimonius. I cut one sheet into lengths--got 5 from the 4 foot length. The sheet cuts easily with razor blade or saw but then it leaves little popcorn. I chose to cut/melt it using a cheap kitchen knife and a propane torch (See foto). worked well. Then I cut a groove into it in the shape of the float and epoxied them together by putting epoxy into the groove and pressing the float down into the epoxy. Now I'm waiting for the epoxy to cure. I also used the hot knife to melt the groove, but used a little thin flat bladed screwdriver to make the bed flat.
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Last Edit: 1 year 4 months ago by 3Hulls.
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1 year 4 months ago #76 by multithom
multithom replied the topic: Float enlargement 2 begun today...
I took the excess from around the float. It didn't come off perfectly since I couldn't cut straight down vertically (razors bent and hot knife is not a precise tool).

Also, the epoxy I used to hold the two pieces together didn't make a seal all the way around. S'OK, I don't expect that edge to seal since I'm planning on overlapping the fiberglass over that edge. I will probably try a different gluing method next time since epoxy isn't needed in that application. The float will be held together as well by a new fiberglass wrap at bow and stern and middle.

Prior to glassing, I will doubtless need to shave excess foam in places as well as fill holes to give a good surface for glassing.

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1 year 4 months ago #85 by multithom
multithom replied the topic: Float enlargement 2 begun today...
The uneven edges (which are the surfaces I will glass over) are pretty uneven due to the problems I created when I cut out the excess from around the float. On the second half of the float I tried additional techniques to try to do better. Hot knife is NOT the way to go and even a pruning saw, hacksaw blade and razor knife were unsatisfactory. What seems to work best is sanding down with 50 grit sandpaper.

I'm at the point where I am deliberating starting over or forging ahead by filling the gaps with bondo and sanding smooth.

I did cut large holes in the centers of each half of the float enlargement foam to facilitate removing water from the interior after sailing.
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1 year 4 months ago #87 by multithom
multithom replied the topic: Float enlargement 2 begun today...
OK, I glued the four pieces together and sanded the foam...and then looked at the amount of fill I would need. I made a small batch of bondo...applied it...and tried to sand smooth...that stuff is hard as a rock. SO< since foam sands easily and since I have excess foam, I'll just take apart what I've done to now and start over. No big deal. I'll get it right eventually. No hurry.

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1 year 4 months ago #88 by 3Hulls
3Hulls replied the topic: Float enlargement 2 begun today...
If you are making a mold for new ama's, the bondo is the way to go, or look at a fiberglass outlet for light filler. If this is it, you don't want anymore added weight if you can help it.

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1 year 4 months ago #89 by multithom
multithom replied the topic: Float enlargement 2 begun today...
It was pretty easy to scrap the project and start over today. The Foam came out of the grooves pretty easily. I can now do it without bondo I hope...if needed, though, I have it. I also have Formula 27 which is very much like bondo but more expensive but it sands a little easier. I'm going to use a jig saw instead of the hot knife so I can make a flat cut slightly larger than the float sides. Then use 50 grit sandpaper to bring the surface down to the level of the float edges. If I do it right, I shouldn't need any filler and I'll just layer the new fiberglass/epoxy over the styrofoam. As usual, the devil is in the details.

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1 year 4 months ago - 1 year 4 months ago #91 by multithom
multithom replied the topic: Float enlargement 2 begun today...
Back to where I left off, have one side sanded smooth enough to be fiberglassed. It took about 2 hours of sanding with 50 grit sandpaper on the styrofoam. The groove I cut into the styrofoam will need some spot putty for fill prior to fiberglass. here are some photos.
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Last Edit: 1 year 4 months ago by 3Hulls.

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1 year 4 months ago #92 by 3Hulls
3Hulls replied the topic: Float enlargement 2 begun today...

multithom wrote: Back to where I left off, have one side sanded smooth enough to be fiberglassed. It took about 2 hours of sanding with 50 grit sandpaper on the styrofoam. The groove I cut into the styrofoam will need some spot putty for fill prior to fiberglass. here are some photos.

WoW those are huge, will they only be tall enough to reach the water or are they going to be partially submerged?

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1 year 4 months ago #95 by multithom
multithom replied the topic: Float enlargement 2 begun today...
They are a little less than 6" taller than the originals. That will change the amount of floatation from 85 pounds to about 150 pounds and the righting moment from 360 ft pounds to 600 ft pounds. That makes them able to hold the boat upright with full mainsail in 25 kts wind without reefing. It ALSO puts all three hulls onto the beach at the same time.

Since you can't hike out, the Triak needs bigger floats than the manufacturer planned for if you are going to sail it in anything bigger than 10 kts. Of course, you could reef, but then you can't point because the mainsail gets less airfoil shaped as you roll it around the mast. The designer was making a paddling kayak able to sail and didn't expect too many owners to want to sail it more than they wanted to paddle. He certainly didn't expect someone like me owning one who routinely sails in 20 kts wind and 3 kt adverse current.

It doesn't change the top end of the boat. That will always be around 10 kts since the main hull is a displacement hull and would need a LOT more power to go much faster than that. What it does is give me some peace of mind while sailing so I'm not constantly worried about capsize and allows me full sail in 20 kts which lets me go about 8 kts to weather which, in turn, means I can sail upwind against the 3 kt current. The modification won't be needed by many folks.

SO far, it is an easy modification. Of course, this is the second time I am doing it so (as with most things), it is getting easier with practice. It is a shame that Thayer is no longer selling them since he could have easily offered this simple modification for folks who were more interested in sailing than paddling. Granted, it may not have been very cost effective to make two more molds for the modified floats.

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1 year 4 months ago #98 by multithom
multithom replied the topic: Float enlargement 2 begun today...
Glassed one side of both hulls today. The six inch tape makes it easier than draping fabric. I don't have the veil cloth yet (expect delivery Monday) so I will just do the one side today and the other side tomorrow. Not exactly sure what to do for the ends. Suggestions welcome. Right now, I expect to try to stand them on end and drape the tape over the front, then do the back the next day. My experiences with trying to get glass to stay put on anything except a horizontal surface have been not successes.

I'll take photos tomorrow although you can't see much given that the fiberglass disappears when wetted out. E glass leaves a corrugated appearing surface so my plan is to cover with veil to try to smooth it a little once the veil is delivered.

So far, this second set of floats is going quite easily compared to the first and the results are much better.

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1 year 4 months ago #100 by 3Hulls
3Hulls replied the topic: Float enlargement 2 begun today...
To fill the weave, I use a Polyester high build primer, but I think you used epoxy so the poly primer may not stick. You can use this Rust-OLeum filler primer
www.homedepot.com/p/Rust-Oleum-Automotiv...int-249279/202097276

I have tried cheaper filler primer but seems they don't have enough pigment to even color what your painting without many coats.

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1 year 4 months ago #101 by multithom
multithom replied the topic: Float enlargement 2 begun today...
Thanks for that, why couldn't I just fill with more epoxy? Originally I was going to fill with veil and epoxy, but as I started to apply I noted that it took lots of epoxy and there were voids near any imperfections (such as the tape edges). Granted, it is difficult to sand epoxy.

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1 year 4 months ago #102 by multithom
multithom replied the topic: Float enlargement 2 begun today...
I've sanded/faired the edges off the e-glass. Later today (when it warms up) I will apply a couple layers of glass to the front and rear of each ama. Then I will go to Home Depot to get the filler/primer. Attached are photos
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1 year 4 months ago #103 by multithom
multithom replied the topic: Float enlargement 2 begun today...
Here's the project after the first can of fill and prime. I'll probably need 4 cans altogether since it's not filling as much as I'd hoped.
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